Fear God, give glory to him for the hour of his judgement is come. Sounds scary if I think of this text in a negative tone. Could there be a big all-powerful killing God hidden behind the text? Does that sound right? How about this; Respect God and acknowledge his other-centeredness because the time is coming when he will decide if you are other-centered, or self-centered. There is a component of other-centeredness that is connected with the Sabbath that helps illustrate this. I'll finish this in the morning.
Next morning. Jesus heals a man with a withered hand on a Sabbath. That's work by any normal definition of the word. The Jewish leaders could not see the hand. All the could see is that he broke the Sabbath.
Ellen White writes in Desire or Ages in many places and in Christ's Object Lessons that healing people on the Sabbath was a common thing that He did. In Desire of Ages she writes that in one town he healed so many people that no one was sick there. My point is that Jesus Himself said, I came not to be served but to serve." or another way of saying it, "I came not to be waited on, be called a big wig, or brag about how much more superior I am than all of you or walk around and let you lick my boots, I came to serve! To be other-centered toward you --even on the Sabbath. If Jesus says that the reason He came was to serve then how can seeing Jesus in this way be a narrow view. His glory is his other-centeredness. We give Him glory when we are other-centered too and the pharisees couldn't see this. In our daily life we give God glory when we do things unselfishly and rely on Him. Love is not Scary, God is Love.
Friday, March 16, 2012
Semantics: A View of Selfishness and Other-Centeredness from Bible Stories
Some indexed words relating to sin in the book Christ's Object Lessons: self-righteous, self-exaltation, selfishness, self-serving, self-sufficiency, and separation from God the sinners desire. None of these words are"other centered," I opine that other-centeredness is exactly the core message of Christ's character, the Father's character, the Holy Spirit's character and the core message of the entire Bible wrapped in the statements Jesus said to Nichodemus, you must be born again, "from self-centeredness to other centeredness." Much is written by Mrs. White about what sin is but not God killing off his children if they don't become like Him. I don't see that message in any object lesson of Christ. Finally, in the book Education, page 103: "All things both in heaven and earth declare that the great law of life is service (other centeredness)." If this is the great law of life in both heaven and earth, as she writes, how then can this be a narrow view of God?
The Sinner Dies at His Own Hand
Page 763-764 especially 764 paragraphs 1-2 Of Desire of Ages. Do these texts conflict with your position of God the Father killing the selfish and rebellious children as punishment in the end? Page 763 bottom: Ezek. 28:6-19 "I will destroy thee, O covering cherub..." Is this a threat from the Father or a prediction based on Nature's (God's) Law? If one reads this statement from the Bible in context to what Ellen white says on page 764 in the Desire of Ages, it would not be a threat but a statement of what sin will do to them-the rebellious. It is Nature's Law that sin kills. This is a law that cannot be changed. Just as life and liberty are rights and that fact cannot be changed. "Sin places Satan and all who unite with him so out of harmony with God that His mere presence is as a consuming fire." He does not proactively judge and kill off his rebellious children. He simple stands in front of them. Their character is so screwed up--they cannot live before Him. She says, "They recieve the results of their own choice. (God honors their choice. There's no arguing with the rebellious children about their choice. They're not going to change.) The glory of Him, (His other-centeredness) who is love will destroy them. Had Satan and his host been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable (certain, non-arbitrary) result of sin." (Note here that she doesn't write that God would have killed them. She says they would have perished as a result of their sin).
More On Other-Centeredness
Forgiveness is other-centered. Mercy is other-centered. Grace is other-centered. Even discipline, when done correctly is other-centered. This means that righteousness, then, is other-centered. The Disciples were told in effect to be other-centered. Go and teach all nations .... and of course love is other centered. God's goverment then is other-centered founded. Sin is the opposite. It is self-centeredness and all that comes with it. It is "the fall" in the Garden of Eden...when those two went from being other-centered to self-centered. Anything good in the Bible happens because of other-centeredness being performed. Anything that is bad in the Bible happens because of self-centeredness. This is in part why for a long time America was great nation...founded on principals of helping you neighbor and doing unto others....other centeredness.....now not so much with prayer and Bible classes a thing of the past for school children. When they grow up they are more selfish than any generation before. And soon our country will cease to exist if this continues because it is not staying with God. No, I do not see other-centeredness as a narrow view of God.
Neither do the angels--Desire of Ages page 752: "With amazement the angels beheld the infinite love of Jesus, who, suffering the most intense agony of mind and body, thought only of others, and encouraged the penitent soul to believe."
Neither do the angels--Desire of Ages page 752: "With amazement the angels beheld the infinite love of Jesus, who, suffering the most intense agony of mind and body, thought only of others, and encouraged the penitent soul to believe."
Who Kills Who???
Whoa! The authors do not agree with Ellen White as to what and who killed Jesus. Let me know what you think about these pieces of writing:
Desire of Ages p. 772 She clearly states that Jesus was killed by a broken heart caused by mental anguish. She also writes that Jesus was slain by the sin of the world. She and I agree. Sin kills Jesus-- not the Father. This is backed up by 1 Cor. 5:21.
Desire Of Ages p. 761. Here she writes that Satan is complicit as the murderer of Jesus and because of it the last links of sympathies from the Heavenly Angels were broken. If God the Father were killing Jesus too "executing justice on Calvary" as the two authors of the Character of God book are saying here, would that cast God the Father and Satan as working together to "punish-kill" Jesus? I say if it doesn't make sense it isn't true.
Desire of Ages p. 762. She quotes 2 Cor. 5:19. If the Father is in Christ as the scripture says, and the father executes His son on the cross, isn't the Father killing Himself? Finally, back in the beginning--at the Garden of Eden, when God tells His children do not eat this fruit for on the day that you do you will surely die. That word "surely" is not a threat. it is a fact. It means that if they ate it they would inevitably, consequentially die. In the same way as if a friend says non-threateningly, if you jump off that cliff you will surely(inevitably, consequentially) die. It doesn't have anything to do with the friend if I jump. It's a consequence of my own actions if i die. And Adam dies after living 930 years. Eight hundred years after Seth was born Adam died. Did God kill him? No. I can walk through any grave yard and say the same thing. In general, the residence in the grave yards of the world died because sin killed them, not God. The wages of sin is death....God is not out to kill His children....He is out to love and save them....but the gift of God is everlasting life...
God finalizes the eradication of sin actively by simply standing in front of his rebellious self-centered children. Those rebellious children die of broken hearts caused by mental anguish as they see what they did and what they will miss out on. The Death of Christ on the cross was a demonstration of what sin does. It kills. Even God. It was to show what would happen to the sinners who would not repent in the end. And what does God the Father do while His son dies on the cross? He withdraws. That is His wrath. So He withdraws from Jesus and so He will from all of His rebellious children in the end. The rebellious, the vast majority of His children, in the end--they don't want to have anything to do with their Creator. So He honors their request. It isn't punitive. He withdraws Himself from them. The rebellious experience a surprisingly, tremendously odious, hurtful, painful, loss just as Jesus did on the cross when he experienced His Father's withdrawal--"Father, why have you withdrawn from me!?" It's not punitive on the Father's part. His love for them is everlasting. He's just honoring their honest requests. He will not force Himself and his love upon their souls. For the final time, and while the life "giving"(other-centered) Father weeps, their life will be at an end. Sin and it's host who have not been changed in a twinkling of an eye, cannot stand before God and it kills it's hosts.The dead are extinguished in fire. Sin and sinners are no more. There is harmony in the universe. All declare that God is love.
The glory-- is it a yellow or bright light? No. It is His character. His character is His "otherness." Love is other-centeredness. And it is life. To be like God is to be other-centered. For God so loved the world that He gave....With the way the world is today..selfish, self-centered, self aggrandizing, self-reliant, self promoting, self-pleasing, self pleasuring...talking about other-centeredness doesn't seem so narrow to me. There is nothing that God does that isn't other-centered when one thinks about it.
Desire of Ages p. 772 She clearly states that Jesus was killed by a broken heart caused by mental anguish. She also writes that Jesus was slain by the sin of the world. She and I agree. Sin kills Jesus-- not the Father. This is backed up by 1 Cor. 5:21.
Desire Of Ages p. 761. Here she writes that Satan is complicit as the murderer of Jesus and because of it the last links of sympathies from the Heavenly Angels were broken. If God the Father were killing Jesus too "executing justice on Calvary" as the two authors of the Character of God book are saying here, would that cast God the Father and Satan as working together to "punish-kill" Jesus? I say if it doesn't make sense it isn't true.
Desire of Ages p. 762. She quotes 2 Cor. 5:19. If the Father is in Christ as the scripture says, and the father executes His son on the cross, isn't the Father killing Himself? Finally, back in the beginning--at the Garden of Eden, when God tells His children do not eat this fruit for on the day that you do you will surely die. That word "surely" is not a threat. it is a fact. It means that if they ate it they would inevitably, consequentially die. In the same way as if a friend says non-threateningly, if you jump off that cliff you will surely(inevitably, consequentially) die. It doesn't have anything to do with the friend if I jump. It's a consequence of my own actions if i die. And Adam dies after living 930 years. Eight hundred years after Seth was born Adam died. Did God kill him? No. I can walk through any grave yard and say the same thing. In general, the residence in the grave yards of the world died because sin killed them, not God. The wages of sin is death....God is not out to kill His children....He is out to love and save them....but the gift of God is everlasting life...
God finalizes the eradication of sin actively by simply standing in front of his rebellious self-centered children. Those rebellious children die of broken hearts caused by mental anguish as they see what they did and what they will miss out on. The Death of Christ on the cross was a demonstration of what sin does. It kills. Even God. It was to show what would happen to the sinners who would not repent in the end. And what does God the Father do while His son dies on the cross? He withdraws. That is His wrath. So He withdraws from Jesus and so He will from all of His rebellious children in the end. The rebellious, the vast majority of His children, in the end--they don't want to have anything to do with their Creator. So He honors their request. It isn't punitive. He withdraws Himself from them. The rebellious experience a surprisingly, tremendously odious, hurtful, painful, loss just as Jesus did on the cross when he experienced His Father's withdrawal--"Father, why have you withdrawn from me!?" It's not punitive on the Father's part. His love for them is everlasting. He's just honoring their honest requests. He will not force Himself and his love upon their souls. For the final time, and while the life "giving"(other-centered) Father weeps, their life will be at an end. Sin and it's host who have not been changed in a twinkling of an eye, cannot stand before God and it kills it's hosts.The dead are extinguished in fire. Sin and sinners are no more. There is harmony in the universe. All declare that God is love.
The glory-- is it a yellow or bright light? No. It is His character. His character is His "otherness." Love is other-centeredness. And it is life. To be like God is to be other-centered. For God so loved the world that He gave....With the way the world is today..selfish, self-centered, self aggrandizing, self-reliant, self promoting, self-pleasing, self pleasuring...talking about other-centeredness doesn't seem so narrow to me. There is nothing that God does that isn't other-centered when one thinks about it.
Thanks for writing....I look forward to reading your responses.
God bless you.
Scott
God bless you.
Scott
A Narrow View of God by Diane
- From what I've read in the Bible, "other-centeredness" is too narrow to encompass all that is included in the glory of God. His self-sacrificing love is just one part of His glory; His justice reveals another aspect of His glory. "It is the glory of God to be merciful, full of forbearance, kindness, goodness, and truth. But the justice shown in punishing the sinner is as verily the glory of the Lord as is the manifestation of His mercy." (Review & Herald, March 10, 1904)
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)